Oils/tinctures vs flower/hash/wax/dabs

[Bill]

I have various physical and nervous maladies and I’ve been able to keep nearly everything at bay with cannabis. My preferred method of ingestion is to smoke it (I’m old school), but I also use vapes, oils, pre-made edibles, my own edibles, etc.

What I have found after “years of research” (lol) is that the oils, pre-made edibles, and vapes do very little for me (it takes a LOT to handle various issues). However, when smoking flower, “hash”, or wax, it takes very little (in comparison to the previous items) to get quicker, better results.

Does anyone know why that would be? Why would an extract of one form work and another not work as well, even though it’s more “potent”?

I realize these are general questions regarding how various concentrates affect a person and each person is unique, but I’m trying to open a discussion on whether or not anyone else has had this phenomenon happen to them.

[MDBuds]

It all boils down to how your body metabolizes the edibles. Smoking always provides immediate relief but oils and edibles usually take longer to kick in. Another reason is that generally store bought concentrates and extracts aren’t whole plant medicines and focus only on the thc, cbd, or mixture of both, and are isolates more than they are true concentrates and extracts . For concentrates and extracts to be more effective it’s better as a whole plant concentrate or extract so you still get all the terpenes for that entourage effect for a more potent mixture.

The potency of products is also dependent on the proper decarboxylation of the flower before making the concentrates and extracts.

My home made stuff always blows the store bought stuff away because they’re whole plant medicines full of terpenes and oils instead of just isolates.

[Bill]

You are one of the most knowledgeable people I’ve ever encountered on cannabis topics. I’ve read many of your posts and am blown away by your depth of knowledge in this subject.

What you mentioned about “whole plant” versus “store bought” makes complete sense now. When I create my own edibles (bakery goods primarily), they knock me on my butt, whereas “commercial” items don’t.

[MDBuds]

Thanks man. I’m all about holistic medicine. As one of my favorite holistic authors says it’s “wholeistic” medicine. You treat the whole person not just the symptoms with the whole plant. It’s a great philosophy to medicate with.

[Rye]

@Bill 3 big reasons I know of for some of those reasons.

1 smoking causes the various compounds in flower (thc,cbd,cbg,terpens) to enter the blood stream almost instantly. And once in the blood stream they can cross the brain blood barrier extremely fast. Some studies have shown muscles to have an observable reaction in less than 4 minutes, some in less than 1 minute. The brain is affected is less than 1 min when smoking. That is incredibly fast for the human body to react to new compounds in it.

2 synergistic effect. When consuming flower you getting many more compounds than extracts. These compounds work together in ways we dont fully understand, and when combined they can affect us in ways that by themselves they cannot.

3 when you eat cannabis it has to work its way through the digestive tract and the liver to he metabolized. This changes the compounds and therefore how they affect us. There are studies that show evidence that not everyone metabolizes it the same way.

[Bill]

Excellent info. A lot of what I’m hearing is what I thought myself - each person is different and therefore how they metabolize compounds will also vary from person to person.

[kanashiihawk (I'm a Gardener)]

What MDBuds said: Yes indeed FECO (Full Extract Cannabis Oil) or RSO (Rick Simpson Oil) is a resin that works awesomely with tinctures/butters/oils etc. I will try and post some personal recipes and links later.
Warmly,
Jackie

[Bill]

That would be awesome! I’ve tried making various oils/tinctures/extracts and didn’t do too badly, but it’s not my favorite thing to do.

I have neck and spine problems as well as shoulder issues, and both have physical and nervous issue components. Also have “hyperhydrosis”, which is a sweating disorder, as well as being extremely hyperactive. Sativa dominant strains don’t do much for me, but strong indicas work well. The instant effect of smoking definitely helps my issues, but was looking for something with a bit more longevity - smoking bud only lasts 20-60 minutes, so it’s a constant intake to relieve issues. Not that I mind! LOL

[DollarBill]

@Bill @Rye @kanashiihawk @MDBuds Nuggets of HGCC Gorilla Glue #4 Fem. dipped in torch heated Sugar Wax then rolled in Kief. after resting and cooling it’s like solid blocks of Hash (two hits 3 times a day is Heavenly)

[Bill]

I remember seeing this post in another thread. I’ve created similar, but not my own oils, etc. I have created a poor-man’s version of these “moon rocks” by using 3 kinds of wax, a bud, and finely ground nugs (substitute for kief). I layer them more in a flat style so they stick better.

[CoolBubs]

Just made some coconut oil pills with my cream mandarin auto.

[DollarBill]

@CoolBubs dang, that looks good

[Bill]

That’s really interesting! Never seen it in that form (capsules), but it’s a great way of dosing and storage.

[CoolBubs]

Thanks, it was pretty easy to do, I decarbed the weed for 18 min at 200F then mixed the decarbed weed with melted coconut oil in a double boiler. Mixed in double boiler for 21ish min. Cheesecloth strain and then pill up (using syringe) after waiting a few min for the oil to cool. Then store in fridge to keep. Easy to make, easy to dose!

[MDBuds]

Those infused coconut oils work great. I’ve never put them in pills before myself. I usually just kept it all in a jar and used measuring spoons to dose it and ate it raw. I usually added some mint and chamomile tea to the oil for some flavor and added therapeutic benefit before making the infusion so it tasted better but I think I’ll have to try those capsules for easier dosing.

[Bill]

You guys are something else! The ingenuity that I’m seeing (and things I’m learning) are really to be admired. These are great ideas as true alternatives to the pharma stuff!

So, from what I’ve been able to gather from various threads/posts, is that the decarbing is the most important thing. Once that’s done, it’s almost a free for all in terms of how to extract the “good stuff” from the “whole plant”. Am I correct in my thinking?

[MDBuds]

@Bill yes. Decarb before processing and you’re golden.

[MDBuds]

@Rye that’s why sublingual tinctures are so amazing. You can get the same relief as smoking it but it’s absorbed straight into the blood through the mouth bypassing the liver entirely. It lasts longer than smoking but not as long as an edible if your body can metabolize them.

Sublingual tinctures are great for people with liver issues that can’t process cbd or other cannabinoids and you can also avoid more liver damage that can potentially be caused by high concentrations of CBD. I’ve made EVOO tinctures for people with liver failure and lung issues and it worked great for them.

They almost gave up because they couldn’t smoke or use the RSO or alcohol tinctures and they refused to use suppositories. Then I was like hey dude, EVOO tincture. You’re welcome.

[MDBuds]

@kanashiihawk I look forward to seeing your recipes. I’ll share some of my own here soon as well.

[DollarBill]

@CoolBubs @MDBuds @Bill @kanashiihawk @Rye @Khatru made a half Oz of Moon Rocks yesterday. my wife and i grew more than normal. that last ounce is going to be a blessing. i can store moon rocks forever as inside the bud nugget turns to hash

Guaranteed Ultimate Taste and works well for Everything. you can still see all the Gorilla Glue Trichomes