Autoflower questions on trimming and temp

All the nutrients are good. Personally I like the ingredients in FFOF for MJ better but those ammendments by themselves are not sufficient.

The Buds and Blooms is ok as a separate amendment but not a total feed for flower. The best thing you have there is the Worm Castings and you plants will like those most anyways.

Notice your flower food has NO potassium? The Calcium levels are good in it but you can’t feed that kind of phosphorus to get the calcium you need. Molasses in your waterings is a good source of Cal/Mag/ and potassium.

You will need Potassium and additional micro nutrients as the RO water filters them all out. Sounds complicated? Well, when you have to piece your nutes together it is.

If I could give you some advise… If you want to take your plants most through veg with COM then great… But I would change your nute line to be more broad spectrum.

Personally, the best stuff out there is Gaia Greens. A lot a people don’t like them cause not enough “flower power” but I can tell you it is as close to nature as you’re gonna get for commercial nutes. Ive been using it for years and nothing is better unless you’re making your own and very few people can do it right.

Once your soil is depleted, you need to reammend. Typically you want to cover all your base nutes (NPK). For Gaia Greens that is a 4-4-4 blend. For flower dresss with the 2-8-4. In an organic grow these slow release ammendments need to be broken down by microbial life in the soil. For this to happen the soil must be moist. Once the soil is dried out the microbes stop working.

Organic growers, like myself, typically use Kelp and Molasses for instance, to stimulate the microbes. Applying is simple… Add to you water and aerate for 24 hours (till foamy - cover it)

For an Auto in pre amended soil (like COM) I would top dress at week 4 with a blend of 4-4-4 and 2-8-4 (Feeding a total of 100% of recommended feeding with 75% being 2-8-4) and work it into the top soil with 4 TBSP per gallon of media of Worm castings. Water every couple days with no runoff and once a week run off 5-10% out the bottom.

… Or your equivalents. I use Gaia as an examples since that’s what I use.

I would then Top Dress and defoliate after week 3 of flower with 100% 2-8-4…

Your lights are good. I like to run close to max around flower and adjust the light height for heat. It doesn’t matter what the par is if you’re burning the plant.

CO2 is not needed unless you have extreme heat problems in your tent. A proper air exchange and circulation along with decent RH and Temp and you’re good.

The Kush are pretty easy grows.

Personally, I really don’t like autos and hoping to warm up to them. Im pretty much a noob at autos but been growing photos since I was a kid. (and im almost 50 now). Im a pretty quicker learner but its taken some tweaks to my protocols and I think I can make some consistent runs with them now.


…Why I prefer photos and that is what I will run 90% of the time.

Feeding every couple weeks with some worm casting should keep the micros in the soil. But you definitely need to add a source of cal/mag weekly if not using molasses.

Its pretty much that simple. That’s all I use and that’s all I do. Big fat, sticky, smelly flowers. Simpler is better.

If you follow my thread “on to the next photos” I explain everything I do. Once you get to flower its basically the same.

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Don’t want to scare you but this photo looks like a light bit of “weed control” (like 2 4 D) damage. If crinkling gets worse over time that’s what it very likely is. Have you been spraying Round Up near by? Even a neighbors weed control with 24D can slam you! Our plants are VERY SUSCEPTABLE to Round Up. The slightest wiff can take a top out.

One thing I would like to throw out here is: as a first time grower I’m having great results outside growing using the slow release fertilizer named OSMOCOTE. It’s a coated (osmatic barrier) pelleted fertilizer. I use about one ounce mixed in the planting hole which is 1.5 foot wide by about 8 inches deep. You “feed” once and forget it. I have found it at both Lowes and Home Depot.

The reports I often read about “Transplanting Shock” on autoflowers I often temper with the thought that what I’m seeing is a genetic problem in the offspring of highly manipulated parents. About 25 percent of my feminised autoflowered Northern Lights just remain drwarfed looking. Bonsais anyone? Flowering great but only 4 inches tall! Meamwhile the Gods Bud regular (which I bought from this site) ALL germinated and grew like the stuff I remember from back in the early 70’s. CHW

o.k. 1st of all your plant’s look absolutley fabulous ! So jealous ,lol !! their really looking beautiful .One day ,I too will have some sexy-looking girl’s like that heh, heh. So, to re-cap everything you’ve said & hope I’m not burning you out w/ all my question’s . but, if i add molasses to my water will that add calcium & phospherous ( that they need) I can order COM’s kelp product they have ,( if that’s what’s needed though.what would you recommend using the stuff I have , molasses, "COM " fish bone meal, "COM "worm casting’s , COM has a organic plant food also I’m going to try n upload a pic of those item’s . The main reason I started to use COM products is ,1st off I wanted to grow all Organic 2nd, I hated all the measuring w/ the nute’s ( I’ve got around 5 grows under my belt “photo’s” & I had a friend that came over & helped a great deal w/ everything ) I said I was going to do thing’s differently this time,I didn’t know auto’s were so tempermental n fussy .I’ve been trying to upload a couple pic’s of COM’s 2 products i have & I was hoping you’d take a look at them & see which ones I should use , but it’s saying the files are too big to upload which is odd cause it’s only a picture of the front & back of the bag’s .I have their Kelp meal All purpose organic plant food 1-0-1 (0% calcium ) (1.4 % nitrogen )
available phosphate 0.8% , soluble potash 1.0 % calcium 1.2 % & The stonington blend organic plant food w/ lobster ,kelp,& worm casting’s 5-2-4 total nitrogen 5.0 % avail.phosphate 2.0% soluble potash 4.0% calcium 4.0% sulphur 2.0% magnesium 1.0% btw my girl’s are in 5 gal.fabric pot’s & it’s been 4 weeks since i planted them into them . BTW I luv how you reply to questions it’s very easy to follow your replies.

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Hey… it really does not matter which nutes you want to use. Any slow release amendments only need to be applied about once a month so not much measuring to do.

The main thing that will make it easier is if the base nutrients are all there (N-P-K) so you don’t have to add it. While it’s fine to add kelp meal along with your amendments. I would go lighter on that.

Molasses is a great source of cal/mag, iron, and potassium but it’s not enough by itself for autos. I prefer an organic liquid kelp as it’s easier to apply frequently. I almost always do kelp and molasses together aerated over night.

If you try to piece it together I’m telling you, it will be chasing your tail. In organics just put the mutes in the soil and the plant will uptake them when needed. In organics you need to be a week ahead. Never let the cupboards go dry as it takes time to break down new amendments.

Anymore If I can’t immediately diagnose the issue I fill the bank up with everything and give them a microbe drench. Trying to fix individual issues does not work as many deficiencies result from other deficiencies… just hit it with a full base nute feeding but a bit heavier on the PK since you’re already heading into what should be flower stacking.

Based on what I’ve seen of your nutes, your plants definitely need potassium and possibly magnesium. Mag deficiency will prevent your plants from up taking nutes.

I would start there if you’re concerned about throwing the kitchen sink at it.

As far as molasses… just use unsulphered. Don’t feed it raw…. It should be broken down while aerating. Also consider why we feed molasses… that and the kelp are really feeding the microbes and the mycelium network we’ve worked so hard at establishing. which in turn break down your amendments and allow for stronger uptake. The micronutrients are really just a bonus.

Keep in mind pit size makes a lot of difference in organics. The smalle the pot, the more ammendments (more pain in the neck). A five gal will likely need at least two feedings in addition to the starting nutrients. A three gallon may need three or four depending how you water. A 7-10 gal you’re good with one feeding pre flower and one post stretch. And when an auto starts flower. You just have to keep in mind how old the plant is. … I had one that didn’t flower for 60 days and I thought it was a photo…. Obviously that needs another feeding. Plants that vigorously veg are going to need more nitrogen.

You’ll get it dialed in… it just takes a couple runs.

The breeding with ruderalis ( which is easily the smallest of the three) seems to dominate autos size. it’s just the genetics of the ruderalis.

I agree… I like big tall trees. To get that you need to grow photos. Also it’s nice to make them all flower at the same time.

thank you for all your advice ,I’m not so neurotic anymore re: my girl’s ! one question ,do I need to ck the ph of the molasses n worm casting tea I made up? (I had a bad experience ,worst mistake i’ve made in my newbie growers short life) it was a while ago & it freaked me out ,ever since I actually stopped growing for a number of yr’s till now,it was my bat poop endever I didn’t ck the ph of the poop & watered my huge ,beautiful photo girl & after months of watching over like a newborn , I killed her overnight she was fryed !!! so back to my question re: ph of the worm casting & molasses tea ? what about the PH ?

I don’t PH In organic. I do check though and like it to be between 5.8 and 6.8. The runoff is always about 5.7-5.8 no matter what.

not a huge fan of Bat Guano… It Can be used in small amounts but I stay away and would not use in flower. I have used the F0xFarms liquid concentrate that has guano in it and the plants seemed to react ok.

If I had to I would have no problem feeding worm castings, kelp, an molasses as food source all the way through. I would do that before using synthetic nutes and the plants would be fine you would just have to feed a lot more… Trust me ive done it. The worm castings are pretty broad spectrum and the plants love them and uptake them easily. You can always top dress with different types of ground up dried sprouted seeds to get your nitrogen and other micro nutes (just be careful not to do this after mid flower). I think it is just more expensive to feed this way than using a base feed like Gaia Greens… When I top dress the Gaia it smells just like growing up on the ranch… Literally I can use a blank slate like promix and add the Gaia Greens. Its that simple. Mix it in with worm castings. It’s a couple hours once a month and it literally all the plants need. Just water in between and add the molasses/kelp once every 5-10 days depending on how they’re looking… If you’re a wet-to-dryer then I’d add every other water to get the microbes back. For new pots… Make sure to make your soil a week in advance and drench it and keep the soil at proper temp to start breaking down the nutes. It will still be pretty wet after a few days as no roots are feeding… I will then add some dry amended soil to it and mix it till I get the texture I want for transplant. You’ll have less problems with stunters if you do this.

Im just not sure about the COM line of Nutes… There are lots of completely organic feeds out there. GAIA is just the best ive found for MJ. I even use it for my veggies now and they are incredible. Ive tried the down to earth, roots organic, the newest super soils etc. etc… Im just gonna tell you again, nothing beats the Gaia Greens. There is no easier way to grow top shelf medicinal quality 100% organic MJ.

I rarely have a plant that looks unhealthy and that is usually cause I screwed the water or let one get root bound… not because of nutrition. Honestly I give all credit to Gaia Greens. And no, I don’t work for them I just love their products :slight_smile:

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BTW, Guano and Castings lower ph. Kelp can raise it. Ive watered with over 7.5ph and as low as 5 depending on what I put in it. I don’t adjust. No matter what I do… My run off will be right around 5.8 +/- 1. I think in a small pot though it would be good to keep your PH between 6 and 7 as the organics won’t be as stable as a 7 or 10 gallon pot. When I see wonky leaves it is usually in the smaller pots so PH could be affecting them. Generally its only one or two leaves then it stops as the organics do their thing.

Again, I think the biggest question is… is this enough to power your plants through flower?.. Is 2-8-4 sufficient to bloom big sticky flowers. I always find myself laughing when I see the 0-30-15 in my friends watering station. He has to be so dialed every single watering it makes me cringe.

Its not about the numbers… It’s about the quality of the ingredients. Finally, he will be growing organic this fall. It’s just a plain simple fact my weed is better, has a cleaner high without needing to flush, and I exert 5% of the effort and half of the cost on nutes.


SLH day 36 of light flip… I don’t know… looks pretty frosty to me.


Steves Dream Queen Day 36. Decently frosted for 5 weeks.


Golden Goat day 34. Look about the same as the others.


Ghost train Day 34… Catching up but not bad.

Every plant since flipping the lights 5 weeks ago… Consistency is what you get. Happy and stacking size and resin.

you can see these flowers have already started to fade… Not because they don’t have enough nutes but because that is there natural cycle. In organics, there will still be an abundance of nutrients in the soil and your plant will naturally stop uptaking them if the environment is correct. They basically flush themselves when they are done. These flowers are asking for nothing right now heading into week 6 so apparently they’re satisfied with the 2-8-4.

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Again Thanx! I think i’m gonna try the Gaia Greens I’m gonna germ. another tent of auto’s , 4 more Kush XL & 3 Triple XL can I use my COM soil & seed starter mix along w/ the liquid kelp & molasses & where can you buy it ,amazon? ) I’ve got 1 &
1/2 1.5 cubic ft…bag’s of it & 2 bags of their sprout island organic seed starter mix for when I plant my babies in their forever pot’s ( I usually scoop out some of the soil & replace w/ the seed starter mix & then plant my seedling’s in there) could I use that w/ the Gaia Greens ? and what brand liquid kelp do you use?

Yes… Of course I would use the rest of the soil… I would wait to amend for 3 weeks though.

For new pots… I would mix it in with a blank media as it does have some nice micros in it and still amend with the Gaia Greens at 50% of recommendation (75% 4-4-4 and 25% 2-8-4) and then top dress again about a week before flower… Occasionally if I have FFOF laying around I will mix a small amount for that reason. On your top dress before flower (or estimated for auto) use 100 % of recommendation but 50% 4-4-4 the other half 2-8-4. Than on you final top dress end of week 3 or in week 4 dress again with 100% of recommendation all 2-8-4.

For each amendment add 20 tablespoons of high quality worm castings like what you have.

You can buy Kelp and Molasses on Amazon pretty cheap. You will want a cheap pump to aerate your water. Add the kelp/molasses per recommendation, cover and aerate for 24 hrs. When you open the lid you should see foam… You don’t want to apply raw molasses to your watering. Yes you can use these with your current nutes. If it doesn’t break down and get foamy I might drop some small organic material in there to get the microbes eating like an ounce of fresh squeezed juice or something. You’d be surprised of the things ive dropped in my water to get the microbes going… Banana peels, fruits, greens, aloe, worm castings, etc. But I don’t mind cleaning my water bin and air stones.

I usually just buy the gallon jug of kelp by bloom city. Its worked well for me and its about 30 dollars.

Molasses I use the plantation.

o.k. I made a tea w/ my worm casting’s that I have & molasses (unsulphered) I stirred vigorously & covered overnight (24 hr’s) but mine wasn’t foamy?? I watered the plants w/ it though ( I hope I didn’t fk them up) I actually just went & dropped in a
decaying “slightly” banana & the peeling along w/ a few overripe tomatoes that are soft & a couple of strawberries that were overripe. thank’s so much for your advice we’ll see if the girls like their new foodies .lol! , I LUV growing it’s very therapeutic & not only helps w/ my husband’s pain from previous injuries & surgeries, but I get horrific migraines not to mention , Iuv the way MJ makes you feel can’t argue w/ that.

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so,just an update i bought liquid kelp ,was wondering they (bloom city) had a seaweed & kelp liquid I wasn’t sure if that was o.k. so i got from a diff. brand a liquid kelp ( and just kelp) wasn’t sure about the one w/ seaweed .So anyway,away I go ! hopefully my girl’s are gonna be very happy & will reward me w/ ton’s of flowers / bud’s ! thnx will upload some pic’s soon .

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I think really any of them will be fine. I prefer the Kelp varieties… The bloom city one says CleanKelp on the front. The other one I use if I see it in stock is from blue planet nutrients… It just says liquid seaweed on the front. Honestly I don’t notice any difference between them.

Yes I saw those, but wasn’t 100% sure about the seaweed addition anyway, I ended up getting the Organic liquid kelp by GS plant foods & Hi -Brix molasses for plants by Earth juice, what about the fact that I watered my girls w/ the tea but it wasn’t foamy?? you mentioned that when you open the container you should see foam & to NOT water w/ “raw” molasses. What constitutes “raw” hopefully I didn’t hurt the girl’s ,BTW I used the kind of molasses you can bake w/ eat etc… but not specifically for plants , but it was unsulfured .so tell me I didn’t screw my grow.

Nah its not going to hurt them if it was diluted in water… The foaminess is just an indication the microbes are active. Any organic material (worm castings, etc.) will get them going. The aeration just stimulates the process. The aeration helps keep all the microbes aerobic. If you’re not using aeration I would use alternate methods to inoculate microbes. Definitely don’t let you water sit idle with organic material in it for too long or you risk anaerobic fungi.

Just remember a little goes a long ways… We just want to get the microbes started. When I ad something other than kelp or molasses im talking like an ounce in 8 gallons of water… Or 4-5 banana slices in tea bags. That just gets it going even faster and Ive never seen the plants react negatively to bananas :slight_smile: or wringing some juice out of a fruit. Basically it is the natural organic sugars.

The Autoflowers…


Cream left (no topping), Blueberry middle (no topping), and bubblegum (Topped)

The cream and blueberry are 20 days behind the bubblegum.


…Not the prettiest girl in the world but she’s starting to fill into her pistils and stack a little bit of resin… Kind of like an ugly step sister of a pheno.

wow,! IMO your girls sure are pretty , thnx for the 411 on the worm casting/molasses tea.I didn’t aerate my tea I added the molasses & worm casting’s to the water stirred awhile n let sit overnight but it wasn’t foamy so I was told to add a banana peel or fresh fruit juice or greens etc…& low & behold there’s foam on it after I did that. I didn’t use an air pump to aerate the tea I just stirred & added the fruit to get the foam on the tea so I guess I’m throwing this out for any suggestions or constructive criticism thnx everybody . I’m not sure what shape (if any ) my girls would be in if I didn’t have this place to go to to ask question’ s thnx !

                                                                               re for any comments & or suggestions

@pc420 You’re asking all the right questions and doing all the right things - good to see a grower making it happen

A couple pics below of my current grows - an auto (GG4) and photo (Do-Si-Dos) for my outdoor garden, and an auto (Amnesia Haze) and a photo (Do-Si-Dos again) for my tent garden.

Gaia provides an excellent line of products, and I’ve been happy with them in the past. For these grows, I’m using Down-to-Earth organic amendments (4-4-4 and 4-8-4) for my macro’s and liquid kelp, unsulfered blackstrap molasses, and banana peels for my micro teas, and lastly some Recharge for the microbes.

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